Interviewer suspended over TV swearing

Interviewer Bill Grundy was suspended for two weeks by Thames Television last night angry viewers complained of four letter words during an interview with the group Sex Pistols.

Thames also reprimanded those responsible for the groups appearance on the company's Today teatime show on Wednesday.

Mr Grundy's suspension means he will not appear on the company's shows - although he was due to present another edition of Today this evening.

The statement from Thames came soon after Rank Leisure services announced it was notifying promoters of the group's current tour that it was cancelling the Sex Pistols' appearance at Bournemouth next Tuesday. Cancellations from other venues followed.

A Thames spokesman said: "The director of programmes, Mr. Jeremy Isaacs, has expressed his views firmly to all on the Today programme describing the incident as 'a gross error of judgment' caused by inexcusably sloppy journalism."

Earlier unofficial sources at Thames hinted that Mr. Grundy, one of television's most experienced interviewers, was not to blame.

After Mr. Grundy spent 21 hours with senior Thames executives for a post-mortem, a Thames spokesman said some viewers had said they felt sorry for him.

"He was clearly embarrassed by these people and they appreciated what he was trying to do to show what a disagreeable lot of lads they were, and they thought he was right to do so."

Angry viewers jammed the studio switchboard after the programme and Thames broadcast an apologised that was repeated last night.

It said: "Last night on the Today programme, Bill Grundy interviewed the Sex Pistols pop group. The language they used understandably offended many viewers. We very much regret this offensive interview ind apologise most sincerely to all our viewers."

But Mr. Ray Mawby, Conservative MP for Totnes, claimed it appeared Mr. Grundy was inciting the group. He would be lodging a formal protest with Lady Plowden, chairman of the Independent Broadcasting Authority.

Mr. Grundy said yesterday: "The object of the exercise was to prove that these louts were a foul-mouth set of yobs, That is what it proved.

"I ended the programme by saying 'I don't ever want to see you again' and I meant it."

Sex Pistols have been banned from appearing at Lancaster University on December 10. but given the go-ahead for a concert at the University of East Anglia in Norwich today. But the ,students' union has warned that there must be no bad language.

The group has also been banned from one of the north's leading entertainment centres, the £2 million Preston Guild Hall.

The BBC issued a statement yesterday which said: "In response to Press inquiries concerning the group Sex Pistols. Radio One points out that their single Anarchy in the UK is not being played in its daytime programmes."

THE Queen Bitch of Punk Rock would like to know what all the fuss is about.

For, according to buxom blonde Pamela Rooke, last week's controversial TV clash was the SECOND time Bill Grundy had confronted punk rockers.

Weirdly-dressed Pamela, 21, said yester day: "A group of us appeared on the same programme (Thames TV's 'Today') a year

ago last month. "And that was pretty wild, too.

"We were in the studio bar for about an hour before the programme. There was plenty of champagne.

Offensive

our "Before the interview, which was about fashion and not about music, one of the arro-gant sods said, Okay, let's separate the riff-raff from the speakers","

"They call me the Queen Bitch of Punk Rock but their attitude was offensive too, so I decided to be outrageous, "I wouldn't stand on the camera mark and I stuck my bum in front of the camera.

"I was wearing a see-through top with a dog collar attached, a pair of

By TERRY LOVELL

fishnet tights and knickers with Viva Rock' on the front.

"Although I didn't see the programme last week I can certainly believe that the Sex Pistols were provoked into swearing."

Pamela, who was speak-ing from her parents' home on the South Coast, said Bill Grundy had not been the interviewer but he talked to the punk rockers.

She added: "Grundy kept making sarcastic remarks which were un-necessary.

"Because of their atti-tude, when I was asked by another interviewer what I would be wearing for Christmas, I said I would be spending the whole time in bed bed stark naked and eating bananas and if I got drunk enough I would kill my Mum and Dad."

Pistols concert cancelled-Page 7

Now Vibrators pull out of Pistols tour

THE VIBRATORS are the latest band to pull out of the controversial Sex Pistols tour, due to begin on December 3 at Norwich University.

They follow The Ramones and the Talking Hands, who pulled out of the tour last week because they were disattisfied with with the way the tour was put together.

The reason for the withdrawal are unclear but Pat Collion, bass player with the Vibrators said "No-one wants to play second fiddle. We're more into music than fashion."

And Chris Spedding, who was to have fronted the band will not appear either. He will be rehearsing during December.

The Vibrators will not be playing any more London gigs this year. It seems likely, however, that they will replace The Damned on the current Flamin' Groovies tour.

The Damned pulled out of the Groovies tour because of a misunderstanding with the band at the Roundhouse when The Groovies didn't show up for the concert. They went on to join the Pistols' tour.

Seymour Stein, director of Sire, record label for The Ramones and the Talking Heads, has explained the reasons for their non-appearance on the tour.

"The tour was very loosely put together," he said, "It was not handled as professionally as we liked. At one point we were told that there were twenty dates on the itinerary, at another we were told there were six. It's not the kind of tour we would want the band to get involved in. We expect to be told the truth.

"We did not pull out because of the Sex Pistol's image".

Malcolm McLaren the Sex Pistol's manager said he was very

upset about the Sire package with-drawals.

"The Ramones were just scared of playing with the Pistols because of their violent image.

"Our reputation for violence is completely unjustified. The Sex Pistols are in no sense ogre-ish, any more than Yes or Bad Company or any other band are.

"There seems to be some sort of vendetta in the business against the Pistols, and I feel down about it. But we'll cut through eventually. People just don't like change.

ex The Pistols have been periencing trouble finding gigs to play, with all Mecca halls, and several important London venues turning them down because of fears that they attracted unsavoury audiences. But they have managed to secure one London date at the new Roxy Theatre in Harlesden Boxing Day.

There have been alterations and additions to last weeks date list in SOUNDS. The Leeds Polytechnic gig will be on December 6 instead of 8, and the Cardiff Top Rank date will now be on December 14, instead of 12. There will also be dates at Bournemouth Village Bowl on December 7, Plymouth Wood Centre 21, and 500 Ballroom 22.

Thrills, Pistols Episode 93

The fact that ninety-nine per cent of their critics have never even seen a live Sex Pistols gig doesn't really matter anymore.

What does matter is that the storm of self-righteous indignation that swept the nation after the episode with Bill Grundy has resulted in Town Hall, local council, University and Rank Leisure officials exercising their virtual monopoly of potential rock venues in this country, and, by doing so, taking away the right of certain young rock bands to play for the people who want to see them. Don’t bother with the old Any publicity is good publicity line; never before has there been a situation where rock bands have been so severely restricted in the right to play their music.

For the current state of play, see News Desk page 2.

At the time of going to press, only a handful of gigs had actually been played. This has resulted in huge financial loss all round, especially for the American combo on the tour, the Heartbreakers. It’s a long way from CBGB’s to the UK when you don’t have a recording contract; then when you get here you find you ain’t got many gigs either... Yeah, we got a few days off, Johnny Thunders said last Friday.

The manager of The Clash, Bernard Rhodes, wasn’t taking it so calmly. Kids should have the chance to see the entertainment they want, he told me. The Government tells them to work hard for their money and get the nation back on its feet and then they won’t give ’em the chance to see the entertainment they want.

The Clash have no recording contract and Bernard says the money financing them is coming straight out of his pocket.

The Pistols/EMI relationship seems more strained than ever, with board meetings about the rumpus at top level. The group’s much-touted advance has been used to finance the tour, and if you’re under the impression that since the Pistols signed on the dotted line they’ve got pockets full of spending cash then you’re way off target.

The Damned are off the tour following the incident in Derby where they said maybe they would play, and the Buzzcocks have replaced them. Stiff Records stand to lose a lot of money because of the band leaving the tour, and the lack of venues for them to play subsequent to the present punk backlash. And if Stiff Records gets in serious trouble because of the Mary Whitehouse mentality of officialdom then it would be nothing short of a real obscenity. I spoke to Rick Rodgers of Stiff Records and Damned management: I don’t want to get into any bitching, he said, It’s just a shame.

Fleet Street have revealed by the way they handled the Pistols’ tour publicity that their integrity when it comes to rock music is mostly gutter level. At the Leeds gig, one reporter from one very well-known London paper had actually received orders from his editor to write a front page hatchet job.

Luxembourg DJ, your royal ruler, Tony Prince was suspended for one night from the airwaves for inviting the Pistols on his show.

The witch-hunt goes on and on and if this is democracy, what else can you show me?

Tony Parsons

Page 2, News Desk

Sex Pistols latest
London gigs are off — only 4 dates left

The Sex Pistols’ package tour has been further decimated by more cancellations, and now only four gigs remain in their itinerary. Biggest blow is the scrapping of their two major London concerts, which should have opened at the new Roxy Theatre in Harlesden on December 26 and 27.

And with The Damned now out of the package, the current bill consists of the Pistols, The Clash and Johnny Thunders’ Heartbreakers. Remaining dates are at Birmingham Bingley Hall (December 20), Plymouth Woods Leisure Centre (21 and 23) and Paignton Penelope's (22). However, at press time there was still some doubt as to whether the Heartbreakers would fulfil these bookings, as Thunders told NME at the weekend that he is thinking of going home.

Pistols manager Malcolm McLaren told NME he was thoroughly disgusted with the attitude of people involved in the British music scene, who wanted to suppress the new wave of punk bands. He claimed that, if the Pistols capitulated now, it would deter emerging young talent. This, he added, would kill rock ’n’ roll.

Terry Collins, licensee of the Roxy Theatre, explained his decision to pull out of the Pistols dates. He told NME: They booked rehearsal time at the Roxy, so I went along to assess them, and I was horrified by their attitude which was absolutely disgusting. I may say that this was before their infamous TV interview.

He also alleged that they had caused considerable backstage damage, and added that he finally cancelled the Pistols gigs because he did not want to condone their attitude.

Collins’ decision means that the 1,500-seater Roxy will not now be opening during the Christmas holiday period. There are still certain renovations to be completed, he said. And we can now afford to take our time over these, with a view to opening during the second half of January. We are negotiating acts for this period. Meanwhile, of course, the venue is already open as a rehearsal centre.

A statement was issued this week by Stiff Records on behalf of The Damned. It says: Following reports stating that the Sex Pistols have fired The Damned due to various oblique reasons, confirmation is given that The Damned will not be appearing at any more of the Pistols’ dates. No further dates are planned at the present for the group. They will instead return to the studio to complete their first album with producer Nick Lowe, which Stiff plan to release early in the New Year.

The situation arose when the four acts in the package were asked to perform for Derby councillors, who wished to assess whether or not their scheduled show at the King's Hall should go ahead. The Pistols, Clash and Heartbreakers all refused, but The Damned were apparently willing to do so, thus antagonising the other three acts. The Derby concert was, in fact, cancelled.

Second link man to be suspended over the Pistols controversy was Radio Luxembourg DJ Tony Prince. He wanted to interview the band live on his show last Saturday, but 208 executives insisted on the spot being pre-recorded. Prince refused to accept this, and was immediately suspended.

The Vibrators, who were originally booked for, and subsequently dropped from, the Pistols package, say they are still stigmatised by the controversy. But they have managed to salvage gigs at London Holloway Lord Nelson (December 22) and Middlesbrough Rock Garden (23 and 24). They now hope that their European tour will go ahead after all in the New Year, after which they will attempt to set up a British tour.

Sunday Mirror TV by Tessa Hilton –– Sunday 05 December 1976, PDF

To bleep... or not to bleep

If you said **** on Michael Parkinson’s show, it would probably be edited out. Jimmy Young could cut you off in a split second. But Michael Barratt might ignore it. He did once, anyway.

All chat show interviewers, on TV and radio, know they run the risk of four-letter-word confrontations.

Some had it happen to them long before Bill Grundy met the foul-mouthed Sex Pistols rock group on Wednesday’s Today programme.

So what’s an interviewer to do when the air turns blue? If he doesn’t want to be suspended for two weeks, like Mr Grundy, that is?

Ever since Kenneth Tynan said **** on live TV back in the Sixties, fingers have hovered nervously over the bleep button.

Delay

Stephanie Norris, a producer with London Broadcasting radio station, explained: The bleep can be used only when there is a few seconds delay between something being said and being transmitted.

For our morning phone-in show, there is a ten-second safety delay.

We were doing an interview with a woman campaigning about prostitutes’ rights in America, and a man phoned with an innocent-sounding question.

When he got on the air, though, he said, “You a big fat....” We pressed the bleep button and all listeners heard was a jingle for LBC.

But not all shows have the bleeper. Michael Barratt, who presents Nationwide live on BBC-1, hasn’t.

He told me: Someone once said **** during an interview and I simply ignored it and apologised at the end of the programme.

Actor Peter O’Toole said That Word on a Michael Parkinson show. Happily, the show was recorded a couple of hours before it went out, said producer Michael Drewett. So we bleeped the word.

Parkinson did let Max Bygraves get away with a couple of Anglo-Saxonisms on the show last month. But Max was only quoting a Billy Cotton slip of the tongue. Nobody complained.

Barry Norman, presenter of BBC-1’s Tonight, reckons viewers were lucky to get off with only one vulgarity during last week’s interview with film director Sam Peckinpah.

In fact, Peckinpah also used that best-known four-letter word. But that bit of the interview was edited out because of time, said Barry.

I thought it was in a legitimate context, though, and if we’d used that part of his talk, the word would probably have been left in.

Checks

Hughie Green, host of Opportunity Knocks, said: It seems ridiculous for me to check the kind of jokes comedians use on Opportunity Knocks if this kind of thing is allowed.

If anyone should swear on Jimmy Young’s show, he can swiftly cut off their mike. But I’ve never had to, said Jim.

But then you wouldn’t expect guests like Margaret Thatcher, Denis Healey and Sir Harold Wilson to say that sort of thing.

If the air turns blue, what’s a chat show host to do?

Michael Parkinson
Michael Barratt
Jimmy Young

IIT"S A DIRTY BUSINESS SAY 'VOICE OF THE PEOPLE'

t's a dirty business TV But the all applaud the explosion of iblic outrage that greeted the Sex Pistols' four-letter outburst on TV.

But the day after, please note, 1.800 copies of their first record are reported to have been sold.

The Sex Pistols' filth has meant filthy lucre for E.M.I. the world's biggest gramophone company, which has them under contract.

M Leslie Hills, the E.M.I. man who is responsible for the firm's records. VOICE did not condone the group's behaviour on TV. But he does not seem to mind the company profiting from the pubicity.

The company is said to be planning more records by the Sex Pistols and to have no intention of controlling either their songs or their behaviour public. If 'that is so, there ought to be - other explosion of disgustóat E.M.I

The great majority of people, parents especially want to protect children from the vile xxxx of punk rock performers.

They are entitled to expect that a great and reputable record company will uphold standards of decency and not help undermine them.

EXPLOITING PUNK MAY BE GOOD FOR THE BALANCE SHEET BUT IT IS A DIRTY BUISINESS ALL THE SAME.

the bad and the ugh-ly

By BRIAN WOOD

THE Sex Pistols were busy making a nuisance of them-selves again yesterday. The four-man "punk rock" group wrecked the lobby of a luxury hotel, uprooting ornamental plants, hurling plant pots around the room and scaf-tering soil over the carpets.

Shouted

Then they claimed they had been provoked by Press men. Cameramen who had gone to the four-star Dragonara in Leeds found it was too dark to take pictures of the group in the snow, as planned. Pistols manager Malcolm McLaren led them to the lobby. "We're trying to get a better picture for you," he said.

Then the vandalism started. A Mirror reporter on the seene said later: "As they walked away they shouted: Don't blame us. That's the picture you wanted." "Then they yelled: 'Send the bill to EMI-their record com-pany."

Last week the Pistols-Paul Crook, Johnny Rotten, Glen Matlock and Steve Jones-annoyed TV viewers by using four-letter words on a chat show. They alleged that host Bill Grundy provoked them.

PHOTO: WRECKERS: Punk Rockers Paul Crook and Johnny Rotten in Leeds yesterday.

As Glasgow District Council ban The Sex Pistols' concert Albert Watson has his say

Punk Rock: Does it really corrupt youth?

Is Punk Rock the most frightening turn pop music has ever taken? Is it corrupting youth and ushering in an age of violence and anarchy?

Oh, come on now, you can’t really believe that. Anyone with a sense of pop history should be able to get Punk Rock into perspective.

Remember the uproar 12 years ago when The Rolling Stones and The Who caught the imagination of a generation and frightened the parents of that generation?

Cast your mind back still further to 1956, when the pelvis gyrations of Elvis and the primitive beat of Rock ’n’ Roll was supposed to bring out the savage animal in us. That scared the mums and dads too.

It was, for all I know, the same with Rudolf Valentino and Rudy Vallee. Civilisation survived them all, and it will survive Punk Rock if such a thing in fact exists at all.

Every new departure in pop is born of two things: a generation’s need to shock its parents, and the willingness of the music industry and the media to exploit that feeling.

The new wave of Punk Rock bands like the Sex Pistols, The Clash, The Damned and Dogstick are a reaction against the established rock stars who, with their wealth, their bored, seen-it-all attitudes and, above all, their age, live a life to which today’s teenagers cannot relate.

So the new bands think they are rejecting all that, and their fans lap it all up. But — and this is the real point — they will eventually be sucked into the system they are rejecting.

Mick Jagger, Pete Townshend, Rod Stewart and even good old Elvis were rebels once.

Now they are just part of the showbiz scene, like Liz Taylor and Robert Redford. It will happen to the Punk Rock stars before too long... if Punk Rock ever catches on.

Musically speaking, these young bands have yet to prove that they have something to offer. Most of the Punk Rock I have heard says little that wasn’t said by the early Stones and Who in the mid-sixties. They look less outrageous than Alice Cooper in his heyday — and look how harmless he is nowadays, playing golf with Bob Hope.

In the youth club which I run, the Punk Rock look is just beginning to catch on — torn T-shirts held together with safety pins, the skirts made out of dustbin liners — and the Punks are about as threatening to society as a glass of milk.

The well-publicised extremists who go to dance in their underwear, piercing their ears and mouths with pins, are a tiny minority sought out by photographers. They are about as typical of today’s scene as Prince Monolulu was to Ascot.

The extensively reported naughty words fiasco on London ITV was certainly a sign of degeneration — but not on the part of the youngsters who were interviewed. If a teenager needs to be goaded into swearing by a tired and emotional middle-aged interviewer, that teenager is a long way from anarchy.

Punk Rock is something which the media is in the process of creating. What is true is that today’s teenagers are making a rock scene which is their own, a sign of healthy protest and creativity.

We, the establishment, should be grateful rather than frightened. It is a lively sign in the flagging rock world, and in the end you may be sure that we will sanitise it.

Just ask Mick Jagger or Pete Townshend — they will tell you that straight society always wins in the end.

Daily Mirror, Wednesday 15 December 1976¹ Page 15

What YOU say about those Punk shockers

Public Opinion Special

The Punk Rock craze and what happened when Bill Grundy interviewed the Sex Pistols group on Thames TV’s Today programme brought a huge postbag from readers. Here is a selection...

The most baffling feature of Bill Grundy’s interview with the Sex Pistols is how they managed to get on TV in the first place.

Those who suspended Grundy should have suspended themselves. —
Dennis McNulty, Atherton, Lancashire.

Having brought this unpleasant cult to the attention of the public, you — and the rest of the media — will now be doing a far greater service by letting it disappear and die. —
M. Pemberton, Colchester, Essex.

Tickets

Years ago the press — including the Mirror — were using the same sort of phrases about the Rolling Stones as they now use about Punk.

Your Pop Club recently offered tickets for Stones concerts. I look forward to obtaining tickets for the Sex Pistols’ 1986 Earl’s Court concerts through the Mirror. —
Peter Reynolds, Birmingham.

I feel sorry for the Sex Pistols. They have lost all rights to human dignity — and, in my opinion, so has Bill Grundy. —
Mrs. J. D. Dunn, Gillingham, Kent.

Obscene

Malcolm McLaren, manager of the Sex Pistols, makes the sweeping statement that the group were only using everyday language and expressing the mood of their generation.

I have rarely heard such obscene language, yet I mix daily with hundreds of young people. —
Gill Brisco, Sheffield.

It would have been wise to pre-record this programme, especially as it was shown at such an early hour. But, in my view, Bill Grundy was quite right in coolly showing these people up for what they are — a bunch of moronic idiots. —
Miss I. Adams, London.

If teenagers feel they want a bit of recognition and this is the only way, why shouldn’t they dress as they like? It seems the only time papers publish anything about teenagers is when crazes like this are exposed. —
Ms Noriel Price, Burgess Hill, Sussex.

We’re not degenerate

As Punk Rockers we were disgusted at the way you portrayed us in Thursday’s Mirror.

At school we are studying for “A” and “O” levels. At night we become followers of Punk. Yet you portray us as some sort of illiterate juvenile delinquents.

What we want is not violence but to get rid of conventional things. We need to be different. We don’t want to be like the rest, on factory production lines or doing nine-to-five jobs.

We are not degenerate, or from broken homes. —

Two Angry Punk Rockers, London N7.

I am eleven years old and when I saw those people in the Mirror with safety pins through their nostrils it made me feel sick.

If I saw them I’d tell them how dangerous it is and how stupid it looks. —
Julie Hynes, Mansfield, Notts.

One of the saddest things about it all is that a respected record company like EMI should fall over themselves to sign up the Sex Pistols.

Even their manager admits they lack musical talent. —
J. Waterfield, Plymouth, Devon.

Service

Bill Grundy did a public service to parents by demonstrating on a family programme the sort of dangers their children might face by following this cult. —
D. Carter, London SE.

Disgusted

I am disgusted at the way Bill Grundy has been treated. He deserves an apology. Instead of suspending him, his bosses should do something about the comedians who come out with filthy jokes on TV. —
Mrs. F. Wallworth, Stockport, Cheshire.

Twisted

The controversy over the TV appearance of the Sex Pistols is a fine example of just how twisted are our values.

We are scarcely concerned with the poverty and starvation that make life a misery for more than half the human race, yet we can be roused to indignant fury by the public use of what are really harmless four-letter words.

Be shocked, by all means, but only by things that really matter — such as suffering and deprivation, which violate human dignity. —
J. Hodgetts, Sheffield, Yorks.

While holding no brief for Bill Grundy, I feel he wasn’t to blame for what happened on the TV programme. To suspend him for two weeks is quite unfair. Thames TV could have taken the programme off the air. I am sure the BBC would have done so. —
C. Waddell, London.