THE CLASH

How did the U.S. tour go?

JOE: It was alright, doesn’t seem to have had any effect. In records, they’ve hated everything we’ve done up to now, so maybe they could sell a few copies of the new one. I don’t know, I couldn’t give a toss.

PAUL: Yeah, good tour. We enjoy playing any place, whether it’s Scarborough or anywhere else...

MICK: We did pretty good. Massive place, much bigger than we could imagine. Most of us think that the end of our world is the end of the street. It’s true. Massive world—even if they all hate us through the whole land, which I don’t believe they do really. America—massive place. Dying for the sort of music we play, dying for it, going berserk, right? It’s only because they so rarely see it. Alright, they get Blondie every week, and they get The Police and all the rest of that stink, but regardless of that, right, when they get us over, they get an event. They get something out of the norm. Know what I mean? The normal being really dullsville, man—dullaville Americana.

Did you sell a few more records?

PAUL: Yeah, another three LPs and one single.

MICK: Yeah, we sold out, definitely. What a drag. I tell you something—we sold more records this time than the last, but I don’t think that’s important. It’d be a drag though if we couldn’t manage to keep ourselves up with the rest of the rubbish. In fact, we’re probably one of the last hopes you’ve got, really. But I’m telling the truth—I might as well say it. The whole music business is geared towards the money.

Now, we’ve tried specifically over these Christmas dates not to do that, except tomorrow, where it’s £25, but it’s for a good cause—other kids starving. With the record, we’ve also tried to do it right. So, we’re not just concerned with selling more records, but I think we should. We deserve to sell more records than those fuckin’ cunts who just take you for a ride. You get two records, and even if you don’t like all of it, I reckon our 20 greatest hits—including Armagideon Time—match up to Lena Martell’s and Perry Como’s 20 greatest hits, and that’s what we’re after. That’s why we brought it out at Christmas, even though it didn’t go in at No. 1. If we’re selling more records—well, fucking great. They’re getting a better record than they would otherwise.

Are you satisfied with London Calling?

JOE: Yeah, I like it better than anything else we’ve done.

PAUL: Yeah, definitely. You know, there’s plenty there for a small price. We tried to get The Cost of Living EP down really cheap, right? And we got it a little bit cheaper—not much—but we had so much bother with CHS, because we didn’t have a proper manager then. We had to do everything ourselves and couldn’t concentrate on the music or whatever.

How long did the album take to make?

MICK: Around a month, minus trips to Finland.

Why did you go to Finland?

MICK: Er, because we ain’t been there before.

I heard that on the last LP it took three days just to get the drum sound. How did you get this one done so quickly?

PAUL: Well, last time we didn’t have much of an idea of how to get a good drum sound, so we certainly learned after spending three bloody days on it—which was a real bore. When we did this album, it didn’t take as long because we knew more about it. So, it probably took two days—or one, I can’t remember.

Do you think you’ve done this one relatively quickly?

PAUL: Yeah, I think we did. We had all the songs ready—it was just a matter of getting it down. We just worked hard, fucking bashed it out.

Is there any way you can sum the LP up?

PAUL: Yeah, it’s fucking great.

(Micky Gallagher and Topper walk in)

MICK: Micky Gallagher, who was once in The Animals, doesn’t want to talk about it—but he was, right? That’s too much for me. He’s a real pal.

Do you want to say anything?

TOPPER: Merry Christmas, Happy New Year.

MICK: Oi, Topper—Micky Gallagher, you’ve got them—answer the bloke’s questions intelligently and scientifically. My grandmother will be watching. Hurry up—you’ll never make NME like this.

TOPPER: Hello, gran.

MICK: Hello, gran—to everybody.

Are you lot happy with London Calling?

MICKY GALLAGHER: Goes on a bit—a lot of songs.

MICK: What do you mean "goes on a bit"?! Whoa, what a fucking turncoat—Anthony Blunt!

MICKY GALLAGHER: They’re definitely trying to say something.

CHORUS: JINGLE BELLS, JINGLE BELLS...

Did you think it was better tonight?

MICK: Altogether, it was nothing to moan about really.

You played a bit better tonight.

MICK: Of course—we’ll be better tomorrow night as well.

How much control do you have with CBS now?

There’s more all the time. Nowadays, at great personal expense to ourselves—I might add—we have more. Since we’ve had this bloke (Kosmo), we’ve had even more of a foot in the door. The foot gets bigger—the size of the boot is larger these days—in the door of CBS Records. But they’re not our only concern; they’re just like a small piece of piss on the map, as far as we’re concerned.

Do they know that?

MICK: Yeah, they do—that’s why they never sent us anything for Christmas. I really missed the white grand piano you gave to David Essex. Oh my God. One year they gave us building bricks—haven’t given us anything since. But what do you expect from a company whose Christmas card shows the managing director standing with his dogs? Obviously, they think their artists are dogs. We are not one of those dogs. And, er, we’re alright—we’re still here, and I’m drinking brandy, and it’s Christmas. Why fucking shouldn’t I? That’s my Christmas message.

Do you think your music is moving away from the Westway sound?

PAUL: Yeah, it’s diverted—it’s the MI sound, innit? We’ve just got a bit cleverer with the sound. I think we’re pretty much the same—it’s just that we can play a bit better now. We’re not a typical punk group—we don’t like being classed into one type of music.

Have your values or ideals changed?

PAUL: We’re just a bit cleverer now—a bit wiser.

JOE: No, not really. But we’ve had to compromise—just like all idealists have to. You win battles; you lose battles to win more. Like when they brought out Remote Control—we were pissed off. We just said, "Well, we’ve lost a battle, but maybe we’ll win the war."

Do you think you’ve achieved anything since you started?

PAUL: Yeah—loads of debts.

Do you object to being bootlegged?

MICK: No, not at all. I’m very keen on my own records, but I can’t manage to play them all the time. I wasn’t so into it last night as I was tonight—as you can tell by the other £500 worth of damage I did to my guitar. Tonight? It was nothing—I just had to show them I meant business.

Did you enjoy tonight then?

MICK: Did I enjoy it? I’m too effete to enjoy things!

JOE: I don’t mind being bootlegged—no, I like it. I think it’s a game—like stealing from Woolworths. But if we see them, we always have the cassette. In America, they’re really hot on bootlegging—it turns into a mammoth game to spot them.

Who was Stay Free written about?

MICK: Er, specifically a geezer called Robin Crocker.

INTERVIEWER: Robin Crocker?

MICK: Yeah—he was in the South London Press for running a protection racket. Seriously—Robin Crocker, also known as Robin Banks. My God—what a confession. But he was the ringleader—the one who did it all. A necrophiliac if ever I met one—no, no, I don’t mean that! What I really meant was...

KOSMO: Nymphomaniac? Kleptomaniac?

MICK: That’s the one—a kleptomaniac if I ever met one.

Do you think reggae is influencing your music more now?

JOE: Yeah—more and more. I tell you something—all the white youths in America love it. They grab you on the shoulders and go, “Aaww, play some more reggae, man—we just love it!”

There was a lot of BM complaining about it tonight.
JOE: I know—they hate it. But bollocks to them. It shouldn’t really change your opinions of other people. There we are playing a reggae song, and there’s some cunt down the front pulling my leg going, "Nooo!"

What can you say when you’re asked a dumb question like, “Are you a political band?”

PAUL: Fuck off! I dunno—what we’re dealing with is personal politics.

MICK: No—it’s none of their business. I’ve got nothing against anybody, but I think Nazis and right-wing people are really silly. They don’t know what they’re doing and often spoil things for everybody else. If only every day could be like Christmas Day—peace and goodwill to all men. That’s the heaviest politics you can ever follow.

The hippy revival is back!

It’s back—the Nobel Peace Prize for Robin Cambodia. I’m a beatnik—it’s true, I am—honest.

MICK: I personally asked Gary Numan—who must be quite a simple chap really—to explain what the fuck he’s on about. We can stick two roadies in silly pyramids and make them dance round the stage. We can get big lights at the back to make us look better. But, to be quite frank, we could not possibly be better than David Bowie—and he will never be. Explain what you’re on about, my man—it’s your time to do it. I mean it, right? Not only him—explain, be plain—the kids can’t understand you. They only buy your records because ours aren’t out. But when ours are out—you can go to fucking hell—and we may well see you there. That’s my message, and I mean it.