1979 02 00 Canadian Radio Interview, braodacast in various forms on various stations.

Canadian Radio Interview

Theer are three sources(the third one in two parts). Presumedly clipped by various stations or broadcasts resulting in each havinng differences.

All three sources contain the same core 1979 Canadian radio interview with Paul Simonon and Topper Headon, covering Last Gang in Town, punk’s state, White Riot’s origins, the National Front, CBS deal, Complete Control, Sandy Pearlman, and touring North America.

Differences

15:10mins
Vancouver Interview (Source 1) and Canadian Radio Interviews (2) include the DJ’s extended intro/outro, political framing, and context on the punk scene; they interleave extra commentary before/after the Q&A.

26:56mins
Canadian Radio Interviews also retains full broadcast elements—music inserts and listener call-to-action—missing or condensed in the Vancouver version.

10:51mins
Part 1 and Part 2 (source 3) strip away most DJ narration, split the Q&A cleanly into two files, and omit some off-topic banter, musical breaks, and repetitive linking phrases.

Summary

— The Clash discuss punk ideals and suspicion of outsiders to maintain authenticity.

— National Front in England cited as a racist, anti-punk threat.

— Signing with CBS addressed—defended as a way to reach wider audiences.

— Live performances described as aggressive to convey anti-violence message.

— Touring North America seen as a challenge; short initial tour planned.

— Accessibility to fans emphasized, rejecting rockstar elitism.

— Song "Stay Free" highlighted for its personal, tender narrative.

— Critique of early gigs misrepresented as violent by media.

— Album production discussed—collaboration with Perlman for authentic sound.

— Mick Jones humorously self-describes as a "frustrated Ritchie Blackmore.

Audio

15:10mins
'Vancouver radio' (source 1)

26:56mins
'Canadian Radio Interview' (source 2)

10:51mins
'Canadian Radio Interview Paul, Topper' (source 3 – parts 1 & 2))

Transcript - Vancover Interview (source 1)

00:03
A different show for us, and that is we're looking at the fringes of music. The Clash definitely still are the fringe of music, the punk movement. And the Iron Curtain Countries, we haven't heard most of the groups that you're about to play. And also the Tom Robinson Band Live, they're still trying to break into North America. Yeah, they are, and I think they've got a good chance.

00:22
I think they have a better chance than most. Yeah, I'd say so. But, okay, now The Clash. Now, we had a chance to sit down and talk to Nicky Haddon and Paul Simonon. That's right. The bassist and the drummer for the group. And it was interesting that towards the end of the conversation, we were joined by the other two members of The Clash, and nothing happened from that point on. Plummeted. And it's interesting because Joe Strummer, the lead singer...

00:47
uh, says, is quoted as saying at Rolling Stone, we're totally suspicious of anyone who comes in contact with us, totally, the aim to keep the punk ideals alive. And the conversation ended when the four of them got in the same room, which I thought was interesting. Yes, definitely took a turn for the worse. They wanted to talk about, uh, armbands and things, yes. Now, what did you want to do with this interview with Clash? Because, uh, you obviously, you'd waited a long time to talk to them. Well, I've been dying to talk to them. I think what they've got to say, we'd best leave up to them, but probably, uh,

01:15
a little bit of an intro into what's happening in London and why the clash is such an effective force there and why we ought to be listening to them. We were talking about the National Front, which is basically the to-the-death enemy of the punk movement. And the National Front are a very real force in England. They're a kind of neo-Nazi right-wing extremist party.

01:36
that has a limited amount of support in the sort of working class areas of London. They're a radically racist organization and a very real power. Although, as I said, limited, a very real power in London and really dangerous. And when these bands sing about lyrics which sound maybe a little extreme to us, I think it's wise to bear in mind that they're for real.

01:57
you know it's really happening there are some rock critics who say that they're using uh uh terrorism and racism as mere fodder for their songs that they're looking for something to hang their hat on well i've been over there and i'll tell you the things they're talking about are really happening all right

02:12
They also signed for $200,000 to CBS. That doesn't hurt. It doesn't hurt at all. Anything else you want to tell the people about Clash? Do you think they're the best rock and roll band in the world, which is what they state? I don't know if I'd go for that kind of a scam, talking about the best rock and roll band in the world. I'd like to think that punk is a little beyond that. I don't really think that it has to prove anything. I think its music speaks for itself, and I was a little disappointed to hear them doing that, but...

02:37
At what they're doing, I think they're the best. No question about it. After seeing them live, would you say that North America is ready for a clash? Oh, yeah, we're ready for them. We've been ready for ages. All right, let's go. And this is Stephen Macklin. Stephen starts most of the conversation that you'll hear here. You're listening to Nicky Hedden, who's the drummer for the group, and Paul Simonin, who's a little slower. He has two toothpicks in his mouth. You may hear them rolling around. Here we go. The lyrics from Last Gang in Town...

03:05
How much does that have to do with the fact that you guys are pretty much the only of the original punk band still around? Don't have much at all really. Just taking the piss out of the front. All these different gangs in London and anywhere else. Just like, fighting each other. Too busy fighting each other, right? Rather than fighting things that should be fought. And like, everyone's just laughing at them, right? Police are laughing at them because they're beating each other up. You know, so they're letting it out.

03:32
So it's just a comment on people carrying themselves apart, right? Yeah, right. Well, how does it feel, being the last of the bands anyways? It feels a bit lonely. I don't feel so bad now. But when I'm sad, it just felt a bit lonely.

03:50
Do you think that there are any bands around that are still sort of true to the whole thing as it started? Yeah, there's quite a few groups. There's The Slits. They're pretty good. What about Generation X? I hate them. Do you? Yeah, because I read one article, I think it was when Nick was saying, because he was with, I guess, Tony when he started. They're trying. I mean, it's better having them than some groups.

04:19
Yeah, okay. Well, do you still consider yourselves basically a punk rock band? Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, so that still all stands. What about branching out and becoming just like a great rock band? Well, we're both. It's not a question of branching out. We're a punk rock band, right?

04:37
the best, probably the best rock band in the world. A lot of people have been, well, the major sort of question that seems to be on everybody's mouths, at least journalism-wise anyways, is like, how are The Clash going to be relevant to America since you have such a reputation of being an English band and coming out of London and the whole London thing. We'll soon find out. It's up to America. It's not up to us at all. Well, like, I have a quote from Bob Geldof when I interviewed him, and he said that it's going to be the bands that break out

05:04
of the narrow confines of the English social system that'll ultimately break in America. I was just wondering, what do you think about that? We got a lot of times we don't really come from anywhere. I mean, we have to break out of anything. Well, the imagery is urban, for one thing, because your experience is... Well, yeah, it is, but what about here? You know, what about somebody sitting in Alert Bay or something like that? Generally, I think they're pretty bored over there. Is that anywhere else?

05:34
Yeah, I mean, they got so much choice on television. Everyone was quite content to listen to shitty bands in England until us and the Pistols came along anyway, right? They thought they were listening to good stuff, you know? So it's up to the people who sit in where you said they were sitting, you know? Two-part question. Why did the Pistols take a... It just didn't happen in North America, and what did you learn from that? How did you... Not to make the same mistake. We learned that we've got to be stronger for a start. Yeah. The music...

06:03
Not an easy, like, in person. As a group, we've got to be stronger. It's the four of us, right? And we know that each one of us can only rely on the other three, you know? We didn't learn anything they didn't in the States because they were different from us anyway, you know? We're a long way removed from the national front, although people who pick up a magazine or get socially aware know what it's about. But there's a lot of people in North America, Canada included, who...

06:32
I don't know what caused you to write your songs, White Riot? Well, it's just like in England, it just like happened at the time, it's like the National Front were really starting to really try and get strong. They never kind of succeeded. They're still trying, right, all the time. But like, there's a lot of problems, and when there's problems, everyone needs a scapegoat. Yeah. Right, so like everyone used the Blacks as a scapegoat. And like anyone with any sort of sense at all would realise that it was nothing to do with them at all, you know?

07:01
The problems were from the fucking government, not blacks. It's always the same if there's problems, but you've got to have someone to blame it on, right? Yeah. And a lot of people are saying, oh yeah, I'm out of work, it must be blacks fault, you know? Which is like a load of rubbish.

07:18
And we saw it and we just thought, fool, maybe everyone else should see it as well. Yeah, there seems to be a bit of a paradox operating too as far as your image goes because anybody that follows you or listens to you knows that, or at least believes that you have a lot of concern about your fans and about the people that listen to you and I guess about the world in general. But at the same time, there's this image of violence.

07:40
that's attached to it and you know you have the gun logo that you use on white men and just the whole sort of militaristic thing that's involved in your state. All that violence thing sort of like stemmed right from the early days when we first started. Like a lot of people didn't like what we were doing so all these people at the back started throwing things. So people were reporting on that particular gig. I believe that it was like fans of the group or something like that.

08:07
and said that every gig was really violent and stuff like that. And also the way we present ourselves on stage is we don't just stand it, we actually, we're quite aggressive on stage. But that's basically because we've got to get our message across. Yeah, we're very anti-violence, you know? You know, we think it's true. Against all violence, all that, that gun mola thing is the fact that most people are living under the gun, whether everyone has it or not. One of the largest quotes that they like to throw around was that

08:36
You were signing with CBS, which was a, you obviously thought about a lot. You talked about it a lot, made sure that you wanted to make the decision. Everybody said, yeah, let's run with it. And then you took a lot of flack. Yeah, we got flack because everyone said we were selling out, right? Yeah, well, what about that? Well, it started bollocks, right? Because, I mean...

08:58
We signed to a record company that was one of the biggest so we could get, you know, what we wanted to say out to a lot more people, right? If we'd have signed for some tiny little company in England, we wouldn't be able to play here now, right? We wouldn't be able to sort of get through what we want to say to people in Vancouver. But you know what they were saying? What they were saying was, if it's you versus the company, in most cases, there's very few bands that have ever won. The company usually wins, you know? So you...

09:25
Then you wrote Complete Control. Because why? Tell the folks why. Why? Basically because they released the control. Which we didn't want it to be released, right? And they thought they could get away with it.

09:43
Just like, it was like a test, right? You know, they were kind of like, right, we'll release this, right, see what they're going to do. So, like, we come back with releasing complete control, right, and just, like, told them that they couldn't get away with it without a sort of, like...

09:57
having our word as well, you know what I mean? Yeah, right. But it's still CBS. Like, I mean, they must be coming down on you all the time. Yeah, we have battles with them. They're all pretty much the same, every single one with the company. Yeah, we could assign to anyone, right? And we'd still have the same problems. Yeah, right. We're all on our own at the moment. Well, like, did they have anything to do with getting Perlman in with you people? No, Perlman's a bloke who ran around with us a lot and came to see our shows.

10:26
was the only person who actually had any respect for what we were doing. And for that, we had him produce the album. Right. Did CBS make any sort of suggestions as far as mixing went, that kind of stuff, making it, you know, more... The only suggestion, like we said to him, like, we want the album to be, you know, we want a good producer, right? We want to get a good sound on this album. We got any suggestions, right? You know, do you know any producers that gave us this big list, right? And he was, like, top of the list.

10:55
and he came to see our gigs and he was the most interested. Like Paul says, he was really into what the band were trying to do. Although he didn't understand it, he had an idea that it was interesting. So we just worked with him. He produced the album, but it was like him and us producing it. He had some ideas and we had some, both at different ends of the scale. And so it came out somewhere in the middle. Does that mean you were unhappy with the initial production on the first album? No, no, the first album,

11:24
No, that was like, it was done at the time when the band had never like, done anything like, but the band had just done like gigs with shitty equipment, right? So we went in, did the album, right? And from the time the album was released, like, we got sounding better on stage, we were playing better. So like, the second album has got to like reflect what you're sounding like on stage, you know? First album sounded like we sounded them, the second album sounded like we were sounding them. What was the first track you put down? What? Give Me a Friend. Yeah.

11:53
I don't know. I can't remember. Can you remember what it sounded like to you when you heard it back again? It sounded good. Another thing that's sort of known about you or written about you, I guess about the whole new wave, but especially you guys, is just the accessibility of you as people and the fact that fans have been able to go backstage after gigs and meet you, that kind of stuff. I guess it's interesting, all that sort of rock stuff, limousines and all that stuff. Shaving off all of the young people and all that.

12:23
You know, just sort of, it's so false. You know, we're quite sort of realistic about things. We just want to show people that we're just no different to them, right? You're saying about North America? Yeah, it's like starting all over again. It's like a big challenge, you know. It's a quick tour, though, isn't it? Yeah, this one is, yeah. We're coming back soon, you know. I mean, you thrive on working. You're doing 700 gigs. We're just trying to find out the best way to attack it, you know. There's no point in attacking something unless you know how to.

12:53
It's a waste of sort of five pounds, you know what I mean? And when we go back to England, right, in about three weeks' time, we'll not know what we've got to do, you know? And they still don't cope with things. Well, that's it. That's our interview with the class. Short but sweet. They didn't give us much more than that, really. Told us about the bouncers and how the bouncers had given them a bad name. But we'll talk about the class in just a second. I wanted to tell you about this last cut we're going to play. It's called Stay Free, and it shows...

13:19
You may use the term tender side of the clash, but in fact it's about two mates, one of whom is with the clash and the second guy has been in prison, has been doing two or three years in the slammer. And they come out, they sit around, they have a tremendous amount of booze, sit around having their brew, talking about what they're going to do and the wish that they have is that they stay free.

13:43
Yeah, I love that. That little acoustic guitar, just because he remembered Jones, Mick Jones just remembered to move the guitar into the microphone. Great stuff. There's a lot of stuff that we didn't include in the conversation because we have such a jam show tonight. But Stephen Macklin, Mick Jones, you asked Mick Jones if he was actually a raving guitarist and he said he was a what?

14:06
Well, he tried to balk out of the question, but I think it's obvious that the guy was holding back a little bit in the beginning, because he's a tremendous guitar player. He said he was a frustrated Ritchie Blackmore. Ritchie Blackmore. You asked him about Destiny. Why? Well, I have read several occasions, actually, that they had said they felt that they were on the right path, and they kept getting messages from people and fans and support that they were going in the right direction, and I think they've proven it.

14:30
Okay. Now, listen, the thing is, we'd like to throw something out to the audience out there. Do you or do you not like The Clash? Are they or are they not the greatest rock and roll band in the world as they claim to be? Now, all right. Whether you do or don't, we'd like to see your response in here to the great Canadian gold rush box, 4600 Vancouver, B.C. We have 10 copies of The Clash album, which is on Epic Records. It's called Give Them Enough Rope.

14:54
and if you liked what you heard, you'll like the rest of the album as well. If you don't care for the album, still write us and let us know. We want to know the pros and cons, and we'll read your things out in the mail. Stephen, hang on here. We'll do Teenage Important in just a second. All right, here we go.

Transcript 'Canadian Radio Interview' (source 2)

00:00
And it's a new label for two reasons. One is that the Clash are going to be with us in about 60 seconds time as soon as we stop talking. And also, I was a teenage import and we were going to the Iron Curtain country. That's right, yeah.

00:24
Which is different. You can say the least. And now The Clash. All right, let's get right at it. This is a very different show for us, and that is we're looking at the fringes of music. The Clash definitely still are the fringe of music, the punk movement. And the Iron Curtain Countries, we haven't heard most of the groups that you're about to play. And also the Tom Robinson Band Live. They're still trying to break into North America. Yeah, they are, and I think they've got a good chance.

00:50
I think they have a better chance than most. Yeah, I'd say so. But, okay, now The Clash. Now, we had a chance to sit down and talk to Nicky Hedden and Paul Simonon. That's right. The bassist and the drummer for the group. And it was interesting that towards the end of the conversation, we were joined by the other two members of The Clash, and nothing happened from that point on. Plummeted. And it's interesting because Joe Strummer, the lead singer...

01:17
It says, it's quoted as saying, Rolling Stone, we're totally suspicious of anyone who comes in contact with us, totally, the aim to keep the punk ideals alive. And the conversation ended when the four of them got in the same room, which I thought was interesting. Yeah, definitely took a turn for the worse. They wanted to talk about armbands and things. Now, what did you want to do with this interview with Clash? Because obviously you'd waited a long time to talk to them. Well, I've been dying to talk to them. I think what they've got to say we best leave up to them, but probably...

01:45
little bit of an intro into what's happening in london and why the clash is such an effective force there and why we ought to be listening to them uh we were talking about the national front which is uh basically the uh to the death enemy of the punk movement and the national front are a very real force in england they're a kind of a neo-nazi right-wing extremist party that has a limited amount of support in the sort of working-class areas of london they're a radically racist organization

02:14
and a very real power, although, as I said, limited, a very real power in London and really dangerous. And when these bands sing about lyrics which sound maybe a little extreme to us, I think it's wise to bear in mind that they're for real. You know, it's really happening. There are some rock critics who say that they're using terrorism and racism as mere fodder for their songs, that they're looking for something to hang their hat on. Well, I've been over there, and I'll tell you, the things they're talking about are really happening. All right.

02:43
They also signed for $200,000 to CBS. That doesn't hurt. It doesn't hurt at all. Anything else you want to tell the people about Clash? Do you think they're the best rock and roll band in the world, which is what they state?

02:54
I don't know if I'd go for that kind of a scam, talking about the best rock and roll band in the world. I'd like to think that punk is a little beyond that. I don't really think that it has to prove anything. I think its music speaks for itself. And I was a little disappointed to hear them doing that. But at what they're doing, I think they're the best. No question about it. After seeing them live, would you say that North America is ready for a platform?

03:15
oh yeah we're ready for them we've been ready for ages all right let's go and this is uh stephen mackle stephen starts uh most of the conversation that you'll hear here you're listening to nikki hedden who's the uh drummer for the group and paul simonen who's a little slower he has two toothpicks in his mouth and you may hear them rolling around here we go the lyrics from last gang in town

03:37
How much does that have to do with the fact that you guys are pretty much the only of the original punk band still around? Don't have much at all really. Just taking the piss out of all these different gangs in London and anywhere else. Just like, fighting each other. Too busy fighting each other, right? Rather than fighting things that should be fought. Everyone's just laughing at them, right? Police are laughing at them because they're beating each other up. You know, so they're letting it out.

04:05
So it's just a comment on people carrying themselves apart rather than... Yeah, right. Well, how does it feel, being the last of the bands anyways? It feels a bit lonely. It doesn't feel so bad now. But when sad, it just felt a bit lonely. Do you think that there are any bands around that are still sort of true to the whole thing as it started? Yeah, there's quite a few groups. There's the Slits, the...

04:32
They're pretty good. What about Generation X? Hayden. Do you? Yeah, because I read one article, I think it was when Nick was saying, because he was with, I guess, Tony when he started. They're trying. It's better having them than some groups. Yeah, okay. Well, do you still consider yourselves basically a punk rock band? Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, so that still all stands.

05:01
what about uh branching out and becoming just a like a great rock band well we're both it's not a question of branching out we're a punk rock band right the best probably the best rock band in the world a lot of people have been well the major sort of uh question that seems to be on everybody's mouth at least journalism wise anyways it's like how are the clash

05:22
going to be relevant to America, since you have such a reputation of being an English band, and coming out of London, and the whole London thing. Well, I have a quote from Bob Geldof, when I interviewed him, and he said that it's going to be the bands that break out

05:39
of the narrow confines of the English social system that will ultimately break in America. I was just wondering what you think about that. We've got a lot of time, it wouldn't really come from anywhere. I mean, you have to break out of anything. Well, the imagery is urban, for one thing, because your experience is... Well, yeah, it is, but what about here? What about somebody sitting in Alert Bay or something like that? Generally, I think they're pretty bold. Is that anywhere else?

06:09
Yeah, I mean, they got so much choice on television. Everyone was quite content to listen to shitty bands in England until us and the Pistols came along anyway, right? They thought they were listening to good stuff, you know? It's up to a lot of people sitting where you said they were sitting, you know? Two-part question. Why did the Pistols take a... It just didn't happen in North America, and what did you learn from that? How did you...

06:35
Not to make the same mistakes. We learned that we've got to be stronger for a start. The music, in person? No, not in music. Like, in person. Like, as a group, right? We've got to, like, be stronger. Like, it's the four of us, right? And we've got to, we know that each one of us can only rely on the other three, you know? We didn't learn anything they didn't in the States because they were different from us anyway, you know?

06:57
We're a long way removed from the National Front, although people who pick up a magazine or get socially aware know what it's about, but there's a lot of people in North America, Canada included, who don't know what caused you to write your songs, White Riot. Well, it's just like in England, it just like happened at the time, it's like the National Front were really starting to really try and get strong. They never come to see you. They're still trying, right, all the time.

07:25
But like there's a lot of problems and then like when there's problems everyone needs a scapegoat. Yeah. Right, so like everyone needs a black as a scapegoat. And like anyone with any sort of sense at all would realise that there's nothing to do with them at all, you know. Problems were from the fucking government, not, not blacks, right. It's always the same if there's problems but you've got to have someone to blame it on, right. Yeah. And a lot of people are like saying, oh yeah, I'm out of work, it must be black's fault, you know. Which is, which is like a load of rubbish.

07:55
And we saw it and we just thought, well, maybe everyone else should see it as well. Yeah, it seems to be a bit of a paradox operating too as far as your image goes because anybody that follows you and listens to you

08:07
knows that or at least believes that you have a lot of concern about about your fans and about the people that listen to you and I guess about the world in general but at the same time there's this image of violence that's that's attached to it you know you have the gun logo that you use on on white man and just the whole sort of militaristic thing that's involved in your state all that violence thing sort of like stemmed right from the early days when we first started

08:34
A lot of people didn't like what we were doing, so all these people at the back started trying things. So people were reporting on that particular gig, believed that it was like fans of the group or something like that, and said that every gig was really violent and stuff like that. And also the way we present ourselves on stage, we don't just stand there, we actually were quite aggressive on stage. But that's basically because we've got to get our message across.

09:03
You know, we're very anti-virus, you know? You know, we think it's true. Against all virus, all that gun-loader thing, the fact that most people are living under the gun, whether they realise it or not. I swear by almighty God

09:56
¶ ¶ ¶ ¶ ¶ ¶ ¶

10:22
This is a place where no judge can stand. This is a place where no judge can stand. This is a place where no judge can stand.

10:56
Thank you.

11:15
I'd like to be in Africa. I've been on the final drum. I'd like to be in the U.S. as well. Making sure these things will come. I'd like to be in the U.S.A. Tell me that the war's all done. I'd like to be in Europe.

12:06
Interesting, one of the largest quotes that they'd like to throw around was that you're signing with CBS.

12:33
which was a you obviously thought about a lot yeah you talked about it a lot and made sure that you wanted to make the decision everybody said yeah let's run with it yeah and then you took a lot of flack oh yeah we got back because everyone said we were selling out right but yeah well what about that well it's that of bollocks right because i mean we signed to a record company that is one of the biggest so we could get out you know what we wanted to say out to a lot more people

13:00
If we'd have signed it for some tiny little company in England, we wouldn't be able to play here now. We wouldn't be able to sort of get through what we want to say to people in Vancouver. But you know what they were saying? What they were saying was, if it's you versus the company, in most cases, there's very few bands that ever won. The company usually wins, you know? So you... Then you wrote Complete Control. Because why? Tell the folks why. Well, I explained to you because...

13:29
They released through mental control. Which we didn't want it to be released, right? And they thought, they thought they could get away with it. Just like, it was like a test, right? You know, they were kind of like, right, we'll release this, right, see what they're going to do.

13:45
so like we come back we've released in complete control right and just like told them that they couldn't get away with it without us sort of like having our word as well you know what i mean yeah right but it's still cbs like i mean they must be coming down on you all the time yeah we we have battles nothing you can do about it they're all pretty much the same every single one or something yeah we decided we could assign to anyone right

14:08
We just had the same problems. Yeah, right. Well, did they have anything to do with getting permanent with you people? No, Perlman's a bloke who ran around with us a lot and came to see our shows.

14:22
was the only person who actually had any respect for what we were doing. And for that, we had him produce the album. Right. Did CBS make any sort of suggestions as far as the mixing went, that kind of stuff, making it a more American sound? The only suggestion, like we said to him, like, we want the album to be, you know, we want a good producer, right? We want to get a good sound on this album. He got any suggestions, right? You know.

14:47
do you know any producers that gave us this big list right and he was like top of the list and he came to see our gigs he was the most invested you know like paul says right he was really into what the band were trying to do you know although he didn't understand it he don't had an idea that it was quite interesting you know yeah so we just like worked with him you know he'd sort of

15:06
He produced the album, so it was like him and us producing it. He had some ideas and we had some on both the different ends of the scale, right? And so it come out somewhere in the middle. Does that mean you were unhappy with the initial production on the first album? No, no, the first album. No, that was like, it was done at the time when the band had never done anything like that. But the band had just done like gigs with shitty equipment, right? So we went in, did the albums.

15:31
Right? And from the time that album was released, we got sounding better on stage, we're playing better. So the second album has got to reflect what you're sounding like on stage, you know? First album sounded like we sounded then, the second album sounded like we sounded then. What was the first track you put down? What? Give Me That Throat? Yeah. Can you remember what it sounded like to you when you heard it back again? It sounded good.

16:06
I went to the place where everyone

16:32
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you

17:03
A way to the place where everyone faces an innocent robbery. A city here in my state, you'll see a home while I'm on that ferry.

17:39
They got the weed and they got the tattoos Oh, the harder they got, the more I want to be I say you'll be a judge, but I can't think of your name I've been through the same to everyone I've been through, I've been through, I've been through The city's air and I think you'll be I know, I want to go back there again

18:18
Oh

19:18
¶¶

19:52
Another thing that's sort of known about you, or written about you, I guess about the whole New Wave, but especially you guys, is just the accessibility of you as people, and the fact that fans have been able to go backstage after gigs and meet you and that kind of stuff. I guess we just say all that sort of rockstar bit, like Linda Zings and all that stuff. Sharing it off after the encore and all that. You know, it's just sort of so false.

20:18
You know, we're quite sort of realistic about things. We just want to show that we're just no different to them, right? Excited about North America? Yeah, it's like starting all over again. It's our big challenge, you know. It's a quick tour, though, isn't it? Yeah, this one, yeah, we're coming back soon, you know. I mean, you thrive on work, and you're doing seven, eight gigs. We're just trying to find out the best way to attack it, you know. There's no point in our attacking something unless you know how to.

20:46
It's a waste of firepower, do you know what I mean? When we go back to England in about three weeks' time, we'll know what we've got to do, you know? How best to cope with things. Well, that's it. That's our interview with The Clash. Short but sweet. They didn't give us much more than that, really. Told us about the bouncers and how the bouncers had given them a bad name. But we'll talk about The Clash in just a second. I wanted to tell you about this last cut we're going to play. It's called Stay Free, and it shows...

21:12
You may use the term tender side of the clash, but in fact it's about two mates, one of whom is with the clash, and the second guy has been in prison, has been doing two or three years in the slammer. And they come out, they sit around, they have a tremendous amount of booze, sit around having their brew, talking about what they're going to do, and the wish that they have is that they stay free.

21:49
Never took no shit for no one. We weren't fools. A teacher says we're dumb. We're only having fun. You know it's just not everyone in the world. And we got thrown out and left without much fun.

22:21
And weekends we go dancing down town on the boat. You always make me cry. Stuck me in that fight. Play me for the night. Smug in this boat. I pass this lady in my room.

22:54
On a crowned planet, you're next person. So I'm a next person. It's the wrong time. Each of you gets played. You're the next person. I did my very best to.

23:28
When you don't get out The tunnel is about We're burning fucking down Cause you got balls

23:51
And I'll never forget the feeling I felt when I heard that you suffered. And I'll never forget the smile on my face when I knew where you would be. And if you're in love, cry tonight.

24:12
Thank you.

24:42
The End

25:19
Yeah, I love that. Did you hear that little acoustic guitar? I just remembered Jones, Mick Jones just remembered to move the guitar and the microphone. Great stuff. There's a lot of stuff that we...

25:29
that we didn't include in the conversation because we have such a jammed show tonight. But Stephen Macklin, Mick Jones, you asked Mick Jones if he was actually a raving guitarist and he said he was a what? Well, he tried to balk out of the question, but I think it's obvious that the guy was holding back a little bit in the beginning because he's a tremendous guitar player. He said he was a frustrated Ritchie Blackmore. Ritchie Blackmore. You asked him about Destiny, why? Well, I have read...

25:56
Several occasions, actually, they had said they felt that they were on the right path, and they kept getting messages from people and fans and support that they were going in the right direction, and I think they've proven it. Okay, now listen, the thing is, we'd like to throw something out to the audience out there. Do you or do you not like The Clash? Are they or are they not the greatest rock and roll band in the world as they claim to be? Now, all right.

26:16
Whether you do or don't, we'd like to see your response in here to the Great Canadian Gold Rush box, 4600 Vancouver, B.C. We have 10 copies of the Clash album, which is on Epic Records. It's called Give Them Enough Rope. And if you liked what you heard, you'll like the rest of the album as well. If you don't care for the album, still write us and let us know. We want to know the pros and cons, and we'll read your things out of the mail. Stephen, hang on here. We'll do Teenage Important in just a second. All right, here we go.

26:45
If you remember, a couple of weeks ago, February the 5th to be exact, we had a Toto special. And we have 10 copies of their album, their first solo album, to give away.

Canadian Radio Interview Paul, Topper (Source 3)

2 parts, Transcript part 1

00:00
The lyrics from Last Gang in Town, how much does that have to do with the fact that you guys are pretty much the only of the original punk band still around? Don't have much at all really. Just taking the piss out of all these different gangs in London and anywhere else. Just fighting each other. Too busy firing each other, right?

00:22
rather than fighting things that should be fought. You know, everyone's just laughing at them, right? Police are laughing at them because they're beating each other up. You know, so they're letting it happen. So it's just a comment on people carrying themselves apart, right? Yeah, right. Well, how does it feel, being the last of the bands anyways? It feels a bit lonely. It doesn't feel so bad now. But when it's said, it just felt a bit lonely.

00:51
Do you think that there are any bands around that are still sort of true to the whole thing as it started? Yeah, there's quite a few groups. There's The Slits. They're pretty good. What about Generation X? Yes. Hayden. Do you? Yeah. Yeah, because I read one article, I think it was from Nick was saying, because he was with, I guess, Tony when he started. They're trying. It's better having them than some groups.

01:21
Yeah, okay. Well, do you still consider yourselves basically a punk rock band? Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, so that still all stands. What about branching out and becoming just like a great rock band? Well, we're both. It's not a question of branching out. We're a punk rock band, right? We're the best rock band in the world, isn't it?

01:45
A lot of people have been, well, the major sort of question that seems to be on everybody's mouth, at least journalism-wise anyways, is like, how are The Clash going to be relevant to America, since you have such a reputation of being an English band and coming out of London and the whole London thing? They'll soon find out. Except for America, you know, it's not to us at all. Well, like, I have a quote from Bob Geldof when I interviewed him, and he said that it's going to be the bands that break out

02:11
of the narrow confines of the English social system that will ultimately break in America. And I was just wondering, what do you think about that? We've got a lot of time that we're in any confines anywhere. I don't think we have to break out of anything.

02:24
well the the imagery is urban for one thing because your experience is well yeah it is but well what about here you know what about somebody sitting in uh alert bay or something like that generally i think they're pretty bold i've raised that up anywhere else yeah i mean they got so much choice why everyone was like quite content with the abandoning until after the pistols came along anyway right they thought they were listening to good stuff you know

02:54
It's up to a lot of people sitting where you said they were sitting, you know? Two-part question. Why did the pistols take a... It just didn't happen in North America, and what did you learn from that? How did you... Not to make the same mistake? We learned that we've got to be stronger, for a start. The music? In person? No, not in music. Like, in person. Like, as a group, we've got to be stronger. Like, it's the four of us, right? And we've got to... We know that...

03:23
we each one of us can only get on the other three you know didn't we didn't know anything they didn't in the states because they were different from us anyway you know we're a long way removed from the national front although people who pick up a magazine or get socially aware know what it's about there's a lot of people in north america canada included who don't know what caused you to write your songs white riot well it's just like in england they're just like

03:51
what happened at the time was like the National Front were really starting to really try and get stronger they never kind of succeeded they're still trying right all the time but like there's a lot of problems and then like when there's problems everyone needs a scapegoat yeah right so like everyone used the blacks as a scapegoat and like anyone with any sort of sense at all would realize that there's nothing to do with them at all you know problems were from the government not

04:18
Not blanks, right? It's all the same if there's problems, but you've got to have someone to blame it on, right? Yeah. And a lot of people are saying, oh, yeah, I'm out of work, it must be blanks, you know? Which is like a load of rubbish. Yeah.

04:32
And we saw it and we just thought maybe everyone else should see it as well. Yeah, it seems to be a bit of a paradox operating too as far as your image goes because anybody that follows you and listens to you knows that or at least believes that you have a lot of concern about your fans and about the people that listen to you and I guess about the world in general. But at the same time there's this image of violence

04:56
that's attached to it. You know, you have the gun logo that you use on white men and just the whole sort of militaristic thing that's involved in your state. All that violence thing sort of like stemmed right from the early days when we first started.

05:11
A lot of people didn't like what we were doing, so all these people at the back started trying things. So people were reporting on that particular gig, saying that it was like fans of the group or something like that, and said that every gig was really violent and stuff like that. And also the way we present ourselves on stage, we don't just stand there, we actually were quite aggressive on the stage. But that's basically because we've got to get our message across.

05:41
Yeah, we're very anti-violence here. You know, we think it's true. Against all violence, all that, that gun-loader thing, the fact that most people are living under the gun, whether they realise it or not.

2 parts, Transcript part 2

00:00
One of the largest quotes that they like to throw around was that you're signing with CBS, which was a... you obviously thought about a lot. You talked about it a lot and made sure that you wanted to make the decision and everybody said, yeah, let's run with it. And then you took a lot of flack. Yeah, we got flack because everyone said we were setting out, right? Yeah, well, what about that? Well, it's not a bollocks, right? Because, I mean...

00:27
We signed to a record company that was one of the biggest so we could get, you know, what we wanted to say out to a lot more people. Right? If we had signed to some tiny little company in England, we wouldn't be able to play here now. We wouldn't be able to sort of get through what we want to say to people in Vancouver. But you know what they were saying? What they were saying was, if it's you versus the company, in most cases, there's very few bands that have ever won. The company usually wins, you know? So you...

00:55
Then you wrote Complete Control. Because why? Tell the folks why. Why? Basically because they released me from control. We didn't want you to be released, right? And they thought they could get away with it. It was like a test, right?

01:17
you know they were kind of like right we'll release this right see what they're going to do so like we come back we've released in complete control right and just like told them that they couldn't get away with it without us sort of like having our word as well you know what i mean yeah right but it's still cbs like i mean they must be coming down on you all the time

01:36
Yeah, we're about to do it. They're all pretty much the same, maybe a single one or something. Yeah, we could assign to anyone, right? We just have the same problems. Yeah, right. We're all on our own at the moment. Well, did they have anything to do with getting Perlman in with you people? No, Perlman's a bloke who ran around with us a lot and came to see our show.

01:59
was the only person who actually had any respect for what we were doing. And for that, we had him produce the album. Right. Did CBS make any sort of suggestions as far as mixing went, that kind of stuff, making it a more American sound? The only suggestion, like we said to him, like, we want the album to be, you know, we want a good producer, right, we want to get a good sound on this album. He got me suggestions, right, you know.

02:24
you know any producers they gave us this big list right and he was like top of the list and he came to see our gigs he was most interested you know like paul says right he was really into what the band were trying to do you know although he didn't understand it you know i had an idea that it was like interesting you know yeah so we just like worked with him you know he thought he produced the album but it was like him and us producing it he had some ideas and we had some

02:49
on both the different ends of the scale, right? And so it'd come out somewhere in the middle. Does that mean you were unhappy with the initial production on the first album? No, no, the first album... No, that was like... It was done at the time when the other band had never, like, done anything like... But the band had just done, like, gigs of shitty equipment, right? So they went in, did the album, right? And from the time the album was released on, we got sounding better on stage, we were playing better.

03:16
So, like, the second album has got to, like, reflect what you're sounding like on stage, you know? First album, you're sounding like you're sounding then. The second album, you're sounding like you're sounding then. What was the first track you put down? What, on the Gimlet front? Yeah.

03:29
Can you remember what it sounded like to you when you heard it back again? It sounded good. Another thing that's sort of known about you or written about you, I guess about the whole New Wave, but especially you guys, is just the accessibility of you as people and the fact that fans have been able to go backstage after gigs and meet you and that kind of stuff.

03:53
I guess we need to study all that sort of rock star bit, like the limousines and all that stuff. Shitting off half of the encore and all that. You know, and just sort of, it's so false. You know, we're quite sort of realistic about things. We just want to tell the show that we're just no different to them, right? Excited about North America? Yeah, it's like starting all over again. It's our big challenge, you know.

04:17
It's a quick tour, though, isn't it? Yeah, this is a short one. We're coming back soon, you know. I mean, you thrive on work, and you're doing seven, eight gigs. We're just trying to find out the best way to attack it, you know. There's no point in our attacking something unless you know how to. It's a waste of sort of firepower, do you know what I mean? When we go back to England, right, in about three weeks' time, we'll know what we've got to do, you know. And the best of, like, COVID things. Well, that's it. That's our interview with the class.