1. Joe Strummer reflects on the legacy of The Clash a decade after the band's peak, coinciding with the release of The Story of The Clash compilation album.

2. Strummer clarifies that the track selection for the compilation was made by the band, not the record company.

3. He expresses skepticism about CD reissues, noting that outdated contracts meant artists rarely received proper royalties from new formats.

4. Strummer dismisses concerns that retrospective releases undermined the urgency and energy of The Clash, describes the compilation as “just a retrospective.”

5. He emphasises his preference for music that is rooted in lived experience and social commentary, distancing himself from “fantasy” genres like heavy metal.

6. The discussion includes a critique of the commercialism and self-promotion dominating the late-1980s music industry.

7. Strummer describes his ongoing commitment to meaningful music and activism, citing his involvement in the Rock Against the Rich tour.

8. He explains that the tour aimed to provoke debate about anarchism and political alternatives, not simply target the wealthy.

9. Strummer humorously addresses criticism about his own privileged background, insisting activism should be open to everyone.

10. The interview covers his post-Clash work, especially collaborations with filmmaker Alex Cox on projects such as Sid & Nancy, Straight to Hell, and Walker.

11. Strummer discusses his brief acting experiences and the challenges of stepping outside music into film.

12. He speaks about his renewed energy from touring with The Pogues and his enjoyment of performing live after time away from the stage.

13. The interview highlights Strummer’s support for Amnesty International’s Festival of Youth and his broader commitment to social causes.

14. Throughout, Strummer maintains a candid and self-deprecating tone, focusing on authenticity, activism, and continued artistic engagement.

Channel 4, 1988, Interview with Paul Thompson

Joe Strummer on Night Network

Paul Thompson: 00:00 10 years on from the heady days of The Clash, CBS Records released The Story of The Clash, which even goes out on CD and has already sold over half a million copies worldwide. This, apart from making CBS a lot of money, has put The Clash back into the limelight, along with their lead singer Joe Strummer, who I have with me here tonight. How do you do? Welcome, Joe. Joe, is it true that, um, you could never sing and keep your right leg still at the same time?

Joe Strummer: 00:27 Yeah, the electric leg, as the Irish would call it. In fact, I just did something in the Tabernacle and someone came up to me after and went, "Your leg's all right, you know, still working. Life in the old dog yet."

Paul Thompson: So how does it feel looking back 10 years ago to the young Joe—well, not the young, but the younger Joe Strummer?

Joe Strummer: Well, you know, I was always a bit old, even for the punk times. You know, I can remember the only time I lied about my age was when it was like, to be a punk you were supposed to be 19.

Paul Thompson: And how old were you?

Joe Strummer: I think I was 23 at the time. You know, now it doesn't sound like much, but a bit mature screaming about things.

Paul Thompson: Do you still relate to the young man we saw there, sort of spouting forth about society and wealth?

Joe Strummer: 00:58 Well, you know, imagine, you know, say you've got an aptitude for playing the guitar. To me, it's not very interesting unless it's part of everybody living a life. And I'm not really interested to build it into a fantasy world, say, like heavy metal groups deal with swords and sorcery and, you know, fantasy landscapes. I don't really like to be in that landscape, you know. I like to be part of the whole world rather than...

Paul Thompson: So does it still make a lot of sense to you, what you were talking about then? Have you mellowed a bit or do you still feel it makes a lot of sense?

Joe Strummer: That's one of the reasons I'm doing the Rock Against the Rich tour, because to me, it just carries on in the same groove. I mean, imagine if you're a rock star today, your life is going to be pretty tedious, I'll tell you that. It's just going to be one long round of self-promotion. You know, make your video, do your album, get your picture took, you know, sprout out your inane ideas. And so, you know, I feel it's time for a bit of chaos, a bit of fun, you know, bit of chaos.

Paul Thompson: Well, you know, sort of the chaos that everyone's talking about is the chaos of The Clash's Greatest Hits, Joe. Was this basically CBS control or did you have something to do with this?

Joe Strummer: 02:00 Yeah, yeah, Mick Jones and Trish Rains picked the track list. They gave it to me for a once-over. We got a guy, Ian Jewes from Bullet, to do the cover. You know, we tried to make it a decent pack. In fact, we held off from releasing that. You know, it's surprising it didn't come out five years ago.

Paul Thompson: How do you think that the Joe Strummer 10 years ago would think about The Clash being put into Greatest Hits and sort of coming out on CD and stuff like that?

Joe Strummer: Well, you know, the LP is dead. Don't blame me that it's come out on CD—I don't have a player yet. Yeah, you know, you can't scratch on CD, for example.

Paul Thompson: But how do you think the concept of The Clash's Greatest Hits would have appealed to you back in those days? Do you think you're sort of like compromising the original urgency and energy of The Clash?

Joe Strummer: 03:03 No, I can't see that at all. It's just a retrospective. You know, you can buy into it if you want or ignore it. There's plenty of, you know, Orchestral Manoeuvres that went out at the same time.

Paul Thompson: Orchestral Manoeuvres never were The Clash, though, were they?

Joe Strummer: No, but when, you know, it stands for a lot of—for a lot of people it means a lot of things. I mean, I know, I've heard this sort of talk like, say, down the pub. Someone says, "Oh, you shouldn't have never had a compilation," but I can't see it myself.

Paul Thompson: So it's not pounds and pence, it's not about making more dough for you?

Joe Strummer: You know, I think all groups are stiffed on CD royalties and I think—I haven't looked into it, but out of the half a million that have been flogged, how much do you make on it? I've got no idea, but it's nothing like as if it would be if it was a vinyl record.

Paul Thompson: Well, it's on vinyl as well, though, isn't it?

Joe Strummer: 03:56 But mainly selling on this stuff must be making a bit of a penny.

Paul Thompson: Yeah, I should think so.

Joe Strummer: But, you know, they stiffed everyone, because this wasn't in any of the original contracts. CDs hadn't been thought of, so in the original contract almost any group signed it would be like, cassettes, near, near, near, LPs, near, near, near. So they had to really...

Paul Thompson: Are you sort of like setting the record straight? Are you, like, burying The Clash and saying, "This was The Clash. This is how they should be remembered"?

Joe Strummer: 04:23 Well, you know, I had it called Volume One because I knew there'd never be a Volume Two, so I called it Volume One just to sort of—hey, that's really ex—that's cryptic, that. I think everyone's looking sort of quite questionable around this studio—what to think about that one later on. Yeah, well, the idea is, you know, that I think there is still stuff in the vaults that are worthy, perhaps at some point, of listening to.

Paul Thompson: What about the track listing? You seem to have sort of chronologically got it the wrong way around. I mean, everybody gives side three—I think it is—like, 10 million to the power of 10 out of 10. Side four gets nine out of 10, side three gets five, and side one gets minus 20.

Joe Strummer: Yeah, well, minus 20, you know, that's probably where...

Paul Thompson: Why have you done it the wrong way around? Is that so that people who don't know The Clash can sort of, like, familiarise themselves slowly with tracks like "Rock the Casbah" and, you know, "Straight to Hell" and "Armagideon Time"?

Joe Strummer: 05:20 I don't know. It's just, you know, if you wanted to do it chronologically, you could, but obviously Mick didn't decide to do it that way.

Paul Thompson: Are you feeling retrospective about The Clash?

Joe Strummer: No, I don't really give it a lot of thought myself.

Paul Thompson: If I did press you to give it a lot of thought, just for, like, 30 seconds, what would you say you think it was all about?

Joe Strummer: Well, I'd say it was about making music that somehow had an extra dimension of meaning, which I can remember from when I was at school. Rock music seemed to have an extra dimension.

Paul Thompson: What did you achieve for young people?

Joe Strummer: Well, I think we raised some issues that needed debating, probably altered a lot of people's thinking about a few subjects. But, you know, I'm not here as a perfect example of anything. You know, I'm just a lousy guitar player and that's it.

Paul Thompson: He's got a good leg—a good right leg.

Joe Strummer: Yeah, a good right leg.

Paul Thompson: Who do you think nowadays reflects the sort of urgency and energy of The Clash? Like Public Enemy—we had them on the show last night. They've been called "The Clash of the '80s."

Joe Strummer: 06:21 Yeah, well, I'm not too sure about—I’m not really an expert on hip-hop or anything. I've heard a few of those, but I was put off a bit by the, uh, the racist slant that writers are now claiming them to have. I mean, they better watch out because that can get picked up by the audience very quickly—can be a dangerous thing.

Paul Thompson: Yeah, well, Joe, we'll be coming back for a bit of chat in a sec, but for the moment, here's the track that started the retrospective ball rolling when it went top 30 earlier this year in the charts, thus paving the way for The Story of The Clash. That was a bit of a mish-mash, that video, wasn't it Joe?

Joe Strummer: 06:53 Yeah, that's something constructed by Epic in the States to go with that thing, in their, in their, in their great... First time I've seen it.

Paul Thompson: Did you like it?

Joe Strummer: Well, I don't really like those big words coming across. It reminds me, you know, really that sort of a few old videos with extra...

Paul Thompson: Where would you have knobbed it off if we'd been videoing?

Joe Strummer: In the middle somewhere. Yeah, when I saw it, it was like, The Clash's Greatest Hits is a video. It's like, I even saw—I mean, there was, you know, what was it? "London Calling" had "I Fought the Law," a lot of stuff from "Rude Boy," even a bit of "McVicar" thrown in there as well.

Paul Thompson: I don't think that's "McVicar."

Joe Strummer: I think that's the video to "Bankrobber." That's our road crew.

Paul Thompson: But, you know, the guys on the motorbikes, I'm sure the—you know, shot in "McVicar"—

Joe Strummer: ... never seen the motorbikes before.

Paul Thompson: Well, The Clash finished in '85. What happened thereafter?

Joe Strummer: 07:20 Well, then I became involved with a certain Alex Cox.

Paul Thompson: Alex Cox, yes.

Joe Strummer: Now, I met him after the "Sid & Nancy" shooting was finished and did "Love Kills" for the titles. And then I think we moved on to a—shot a video in Spain for "Love Kills," which has never been seen, unfortunately. We couldn't get it for the show. We had a little bit of—I hear it's in a bar in Durango, on the video jukebox, but, you know, it's not worth really going there. Durango's a bit too far away. And then we made "Straight to Hell," and then with made "Walker"—well, he made "Straight to Hell" and "Walker."

Paul Thompson: So what's this thing about you and Alex Cox? It seems to be, you know, you struck up a bit of a relationship. He strikes me as a sort of bit of a hit-and-miss film director, in the same sense that The Clash were quite hit-and-miss in terms of record producing.

Joe Strummer: 08:26 Well, yeah, you may be right. I mean, Alex is somebody who tries to do things against the grain, even if it's pointless. At least he's trying something. And, you know, I've got a lot of time for Alex, because I think he does that and he's not just making "Rambo 5" or, you know, "Beverly Hills 3" or the usual stream he gets off with that stuff, you know.

Paul Thompson: Do you think he's like the Joe Strummer of the film world?

Joe Strummer: 08:55 Would you like to think of him as that? No, I'd see him more as the sort of cross between—I don't know—Malcolm McLaren and somebody else. You know, he likes to be a bit of an entrepreneur.

Paul Thompson: And you did just the one track for "Sid & Nancy" then?

Joe Strummer: Yeah, I had a couple of other things in the film under assumed names.

Paul Thompson: That's a bit naughty.

Joe Strummer: Well, that was a bit naughty. But apart from the track on "Sid & Nancy," you didn't have anything else to do with it?

Paul Thompson: Apart from this stuff that we've, um...

Joe Strummer: Yeah, we're not talking about. It was all shot the time I met him. I mean, the other stuff you did was—it's not, obviously, doesn't stand out. I mean, otherwise everyone'd be saying, "Oh, that was Joe Strummer there."

Paul Thompson: Well, it's kind of, you know, um...

Joe Strummer: 09:56 I did a sort of dub reggae number. He was—he'd run out of money and run out of time. And, you know, the last thing in a film is the music budget and they're going, "Oh, we've got two grand and we got to get in 10 records." You can't afford it, you know. So, um, I just banged them off a few odd, odd... It was a great track, "Love Kills," wasn't it?

Paul Thompson: It was okay, yeah. Didn't go that—didn't go that far, though, did it?

Joe Strummer: No, I don't think it sold two copies. No, if anyone's got a copy, send it to me. But, um, the film "Straight to Hell" you were involved in, you actually—was that your acting debut, apart from "Rude Boy"?

Paul Thompson: Yeah, and how did you find—you sort of leapt into the world of acting. Did you enjoy it?

Joe Strummer: 10:26 Well, I kind of leapt in and leapt back out again. That's the way I look at it, because, um, I don't think I did any kind of a good job, like you really should construct another personality who is the person you're pretending to be, you know. And I—it does look a bit like Joe Strummer dressed up as a bandito. I felt that I knew who that character, if anybody, was supposed to have been, you know, and I think proper actors can do that with ease.

Paul Thompson: Well, we'll be seeing Joe doing what he was doing very shortly. But for the moment, we're going to go to a break, and then we'll be talking more about the film work with Alex Cox. We'll be talking about Rock Against the Rich and Amnesty International. A bit of trouble with the old six-shooter there, Joe?

Joe Strummer: 10:57 Yeah, that was my first week on the picture, you know, and gun twirling takes about a month. Gun twirling and smoking a cigarette at the same time—I don't think we ever saw Clint do that, did we?

Paul Thompson: Yeah, he used to have shots—always one in the side of his mouth.

Joe Strummer: Yeah, but you never—you never took it out whilst he was toing his gun.

Paul Thompson: No, he's too sensible. Too difficult.

Joe Strummer: "Straight to Hell," I heard that, um, you actually—there was a lot more of you in the film than actually, you know, eventually came out.

Paul Thompson: Well, not really. I think there was a great bit of acting from Elvis Costello, where the women were interrogating him and they had him in one of those back rooms and they were slapping him around the mush and he was going, "Tell me, tell me, what is it?" and they were whispering and laughing and slapping him again. And, um, that got cut out, you know, and there were some good bits—more tormenting of Xander Schloss, who's the wiener man.

Joe Strummer: 11:56 You basically didn't have much to do with it from the start then—just a few small...

Paul Thompson: Well, I was sort of there at the birth of the original idea, you know. What gave Alex the idea was us, really hung over at the Cannes Festival in '86, where we were sitting really ruined after nights drinking and all these people were leaping about playing tennis and diving into the pool, you know. And me and Dick Rude and Tom Richmond, the cameraman, were like three skeletons on a bench, and that sort of gave him the idea for the film—you know, incompetent hit team waking up with hangovers and bungling everything.

Joe Strummer: And the next film you worked on after that one was, um, "Walker," but you didn't actually act in that at all?

Paul Thompson: No, just "Walker" is in there. "Walker," yeah, I am actually in it as a sort of extra. I grew a beard and grew my hair really long and I just sort of run about wearing rags.

Joe Strummer: What's the film about?

Paul Thompson: It's about the true story of William Walker, who invaded Nicaragua in 1850 or thereabouts. Yeah, and, well, he had 58 men with him and he took over the country and eventually declared himself president.

Joe Strummer: Do you admire him?

Paul Thompson: No, not really, no. I mean, the fact that it's Central—well, you know, Alex was interested in the story not only because it was topical, but also because Walker was an idealist who was, say, anti-slavery, until it got to a point where his power was about to go and he conveniently would switch over and declare slavery in Nicaragua, just to cover his own tracks. And I think that aspect interested Alex.

Joe Strummer: Soundtrack came out here but didn't really get talked about very much.

Paul Thompson: You about that?

Joe Strummer: No, it's just—it helps if the film comes out, you know.

Paul Thompson: When's the film coming out?

Joe Strummer: Well, it's not got any, uh, any release date. It might show in London for a couple of weeks at the cinema.

Paul Thompson: Who's the film company made it?

Joe Strummer: Universal.

Paul Thompson: Well, we're going to share a clip now, so anybody—everybody writes into Universal Films to bring "Walker" over, and then the track will shoot up the charts. Well, then, for those of you not acquainted with the film "Walker"—that's going to be many of you—or Joe Strummer's soundtrack to it, here's a clip entitled "Filibusto." Hope you'll see a bit more of that around soon.

Joe Strummer: 14:04 Yep.

Paul Thompson: Would you do any Alex Cox soundtrack?

Joe Strummer: What, after "Walker"?

Paul Thompson: Just any.

Joe Strummer: Yeah, I mean, you seem to have done quite a few already.

Paul Thompson: Yeah, I quite like it, because I suppose I've got a close relationship with him. But, um, I don't know what he's doing at the moment. I think he's writing the script or something.

Joe Strummer: Well, maybe he'll bring you up quite soon. Joe, you toured the States recently with The Pogues. Did this give you a refreshed, a renewed sort of energy to be playing live again?

Paul Thompson: Yeah, it's, you know, if you have a layoff, it's a bit daunting, you know, to get back. But it was good to stand in the back row for a while, you know, like there's the front line—Spider and Shane and Terry Woods and whoever—and when Chevron got sick and I took over his rhythm guitar playing for a month, it's kind of good to stand there. You could watch the crowd, you know, just—I quite like watching things.

Joe Strummer: And so you're back into playing live. You set up this Rock Against the Rich tour?

Paul Thompson: 15:06 Well, London Class War did.

Joe Strummer: And you're sort of fronting it for them?

Paul Thompson: Yeah.

Joe Strummer: Tell us quickly what that's setting out to do.

Paul Thompson: Well, it'll raise some money for them, and also in every locality there'll be—50% of the door will go towards some needy local fund.

Joe Strummer: When you say "Rock Against the Rich," does it rock against anyone who's got a lot of money?

Paul Thompson: Well, to me, you know, the title of the tour is, um, a misnomer. You know, I see it more as a sort of debate, a way of starting a debate, or stirring things up, or bringing people out of the woodwork. You know, 275 bands have rung them, uh, to try and play. People have been saying, you know, what is Joe Strummer, son of a diplomat, ex-public schoolboy, possible millionaire living in a big pad in Notting Hill, which is seriously gentrified, doing leading Rock Against the Rich?

Joe Strummer: 16:09 Well, you know, first, I'm a billionaire—you should know that. Secondly, Strummer Castle in Notting Hill, just 'cause it has 166 rooms, you—I don't think that's too much. But no, but seriously, come on, I mean, what would you say to that? Do you think that's a worthy criticism of...

Paul Thompson: I'd say they need a well-known person, okay, to generate any interest. And I agreed to do it because I felt that I would benefit myself from doing it, because I couldn't see any way of getting up onto a stage in this sort of '80s tedium, you know, of crappy pop music just somehow ringing the cash tills. You know, it was just a block in my mind that I could work from now till the end of time doing soundtracks if I wanted to, 'cause I'm...

Joe Strummer: Well, you pulled up the dates so you can do some soundtracks, haven't you? You pulled the dates. It's actually a bit of film acting, which I said I'll never do. But no, the point is that they needed someone well-known to generate some kind of interest, and so I agreed to do it because I think anarchists should have, you know, the debate about anarchism should really be taken more seriously. Because although we now have a fine capitalistic system, everyone's happy, so all, you know, anarchism is still another system. It still, you know, deserves, like, say, intellectuals to consider it. I mean, I don't like the way that any kind of criticism of this government at all is, like, hammered with a huge mallet. And so I agreed to do the tour, 'cause I thought it was a good stir up, you know, brings people out from their houses from watching shows like this.

Paul Thompson: Yeah, right. Joe, matey, buddy boy, um, another event that—a big event that you're drawing attention towards is this massive Amnesty International Festival of Youth, which is happening on June the 18th and 19th this year. Can you just quickly tell us what is going to be happening? Give us the plug, give us the...

Joe Strummer: 17:47 I'm going to set up a tent up there in Milton Keynes, um, and get a cable onto my tent, and I'm going to spend the weekend camping up there. Yeah, because there's a giant festival at the Milton Keynes Bowl.

Paul Thompson: So what's going to be happening? What's the festival?

Joe Strummer: Well, it's just going to be groups playing and, um, people showing some support, which is, I—for the cause of Amnesty, which I think is really something that no one could really turn down a chance to do something decent. I think it's a good chance on that weekend, 'cause there's no Glastonbury Festival this year. That'll be a good, a good weekend out.

Paul Thompson: Have you suffered in competition with the Nelson Mandela event?

Joe Strummer: Yeah, the way I see it, that is like a huge event, Wembley Stadium, right? Whitney Houston, D Street. So I see that as—that's probably the event for the over-40s, whereas anybody, like, more adventurous can come to the Milton Keynes Bowl over that weekend.

Paul Thompson: Joe, I think we're running out of time. We're going to have to flash up the pledge line. We flash up the pledge line now. There's a phone number that—what, what, people phone in?

Joe Strummer: 18:52 Yeah, 098 400 500, and pledge money to the event and find out information about getting tickets and stuff like that. So if you phone that number you'll get all the information you need. And as far as Joe Strummer's concerned, we've got a new single coming out on the 6th of June, "Trash City."

Paul Thompson: Yeah, it's from a film called "Permanent Record." Film should be coming out in about 10 years' time.

Joe Strummer: No, it'll come out this year, I think.

Paul Thompson: That sounds well organised. And you've not seen this video before either?

Joe Strummer: 19:15 Well, no, um, I saw the rough footage of which is shot by Jason Ma on a Super 8 camera while we were actually recording, and, um, I haven't seen it with the—there's some stuff from the film cranked into it.

Paul Thompson: Well, Joe, thanks a lot for coming along tonight. Wish you all the best with Amnesty International's Festival of Youth. ACC call worth supporting.

Joe Strummer: Well, it's a bit of an exclusive preview, then, for us here on Night Network. And Joe Strummer approves of the new Joe Strummer single due out on June the 6th, from the film "Permanent Record." We bring you "Trash City."